Real Estate Agent Podcast Episode 94: Using Your Personal Brand to Tell Stories that Drive Revenue with Kurt Uhlir

Brett: 

Hey, Kurt, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. 

Kurt: 

Yeah, thanks for having me, Brett. 

Brett: 

Yeah. Okay. So for our listeners Kurt is kind of a big deal. Kurt is a globally recognized marketer operator and speaker he's built and run businesses from startups to multimillion dollar, even eight figure companies. He's assembled teams across six continents. He was also at the front lines creating several of the marketing channels we all use today, including social media management, influencer marketing, and location based marketing. He has appearances on national television shows and periodicals, including wired, Tech crunch, thrive global, USA today, business to community WGN, radio, NBC, and ABC. So Kurt, can you give us a quick background, you know, about you your career and ultimately, you know, how you got to where you are today? 

Kurt: 

Yeah. yeah, I've, I mean, I've always kind of been a business person at heart started my first legal entity when I was 14 it's just always one of those things where even in that case, it's like, wow, we're making enough money. Somebody's gonna come wanting to me to pay taxes on that. 

Brett: 

Yeah, always, 

Kurt: 

But I've really come into high growth technology companies. And so you mentioned I've been at the forefronts of a lot of the marketing technologies agents and mortgage brokers use on a daily basis. But for the last three years, I've been very three and a half years. I've been very heavy into real estate and real estate marketing technology. And so still using some of the channels we've done before, but getting much more into real estate which has been incredible, cuz I didn't know, things like, wow, almost every agent in the us is an independent contractor. And so there's been a huge learning curve for me, for me to realize like, wow, there's 2 million solo entrepreneurs out there that hold the hang a shingle somewhere but how do I adapt things that I've been successful with to actually help them on an individual agent basis or sometimes team basis as well? 

Brett: 

Sure. Cool. Okay. So you know, like you had just said from an early age, you know, you were an entrepreneur and obviously very savvy with technology you know, you wrote your own code for your own computer games. And then you eventually you took that drive and applied it to a landscaping and contracting business, you know, where you hired out your friends for the work at that age and for your friends' age, we, you just touched on, you know, independent contractors. Was that something you had to run into as you started that business? 

Kurt: 

Yeah, I mean, I mean at that age, I mean when, when you're paying people out enough, I mean you also have to show at, you know, a certain dollar figure where those dollar goes. So it's like, sure. I probably had, you know, two dozen friends in high school in north Alabama that were 10 99 contractors for me. That's crazy. Cause like I could go and sell lawn services and pressure washing day in, day out, but you have to, somebody to actually implement that as well. Yeah. And so they, a lot of them got a kind of early, early career as well as about what does that look like for them. 

Brett: 

OK, cool. So you know, at that young age and you know, obviously you had moved on from that business, but did you always know that this was gonna be your path or was there a point in your life where that light bulb kind of went off and you're like, this is what I am supposed to be doing. Like, this is what I was made for. 

Kurt: 

I'm still not even sure what my path necessarily is today. I mean, there's a lot, I do respect about Gary Vaynerchuk where he is like, wow, you're in your forties or fifties. It's not too early to start. I mean, right. I'm in my mid forties and it's like, what will I be doing in, you know, in 30 years I think it'll look very similar format now. Sure. But if you went back to when I was 35, I, I did not know actually what I kind of wanted to be when I grew up, I thought I was much more of an operator and kind of, and what that looked like. And I dabbled at starting technology startups and realized thanks to a mentor of mine. Like, gosh, it's, it's sexy to kind of be out there and start something, you know, from, from nothing and grow that up. 

Kurt: 

But what it was hard for me. And so he actually counseled me through actually leaving a company I had started and finding somebody to run it because he's like, you're a scaler Kurt. And so I've been good in so many industries and helping so many people in different business types because what I'm really good at is helping somebody grow once they have momentum and they have pain points and figuring that out. So I don't know exactly what that'll look like for me, you know, in 10 or 15 years. But I, I think that's probably the, the closest term I can come to for like, what's Kurt good at, well, I tend to do marketing day and day out now, but I'm a scaler. I help people magnify whatever they're at. If you want a 50 X or a hundred X count of your business, that's what I, that's what my skillset is. 

Brett: 

Okay. So that's where you, that's where you truly thrive. You know, so obviously technology has played a large role in your career and you know, you had just said that you're now sort of in the last three and a half years, you've been entering the real estate industry. What are your thoughts, you know, on technology and its applications in real estate? 

Kurt: 

It's pro I mean, every agent, if you wanna be successful, you either have to know technology yourself or have somebody you can outsource some of that to your team, especially from a marketing perspective. But I've also been I've been a little dismayed when I came into the industry about how, how much I almost felt like snake oil was out there of sure. Technology that was sold. Like this is gonna solve all my problems or shift to this one. The fact is like, I'm with the company right now. I mean, our technology's two orders of magnitude, better than anyone else's, but it still doesn't work unless you do like it'll power, a website that, you know, will let you out rank Zillow. But if you just put it on there and pay a hundred dollars a month, it's not going to do that by itself. There's work that you need to be done.  when you do that, the success stories that I see from people are incredible, but if you apply that to real estate and social media management, or starting to do a TikTok show, things like agents, like you need to know technology, but you also still have to go, all right, how do I use this on a day in, or at least weekly basis to magnify what I'm good at? 

Brett: 

Sure. So have you found, as far as, you know, obviously you can build out these platforms and all of these tech tools that will help people, but is there a point where, you know, there becomes a little more hands on education for them to be able to grasp what they're actually doing and actually let them build it from there 

Kurt: 

Depending on the agent and depending on their skill set. So it's like I have a there's some agents that I mean they say will build their website themselves. They wanna do their email campaigns and automations themselves. And that's great. On the other side, I I have a partner company I work with sometimes called agent hub 360. They literally handle everything, but like the real estate transaction and even some of the relationships with clients, because they're like, like agents don't want to always follow up even with leads. And so, right. They realize, but not just setting up the systems, but sometimes some of that follow up in relationship bit they're like, well, we help with that. And so I think as an agent, the key for me is knowing yourself and saying, Hey, if it do I do I know my business, do I feel like I have a better connection with my potential clients by learning that technology myself? 

Kurt: 

And how much of it do I wanna set up? Right. Or is that something I need to bring somebody else from the outside? I mean, I have stories of literally hundreds, maybe thousands of agents at this point that have taken technology, like what we have showcase IDX and others. And like, rather than even go to an agency, their 14 year old daughter helps them implement things. And because of that, like, it kind of keeps him in the family, but, but they're for them, they found success because they didn't just pay somebody five grand to build a, a great website. Right. It was part of something, they were part of the creation. And therefore when they build out community pages, when they think about newsletters, it's in their head that much more so when they interact with their clients, it works. And so it's not just a, Hey, no technology or don't kind of situation. 

Brett: 

Sure. Well, so the it's that classic old adage of, you know, you could fish and like force somebody and give them the fish or you could, you know, teach them how to fish and help them have that for the rest of their lives. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And sometimes more is not always better. I mean, like I said you know, a lot of times, you know, we see, I see people, I have a client he's he's 60,000 unique visitors from Google on a monthly basis in a mid-sized us city. He's built out at this point a thousand plus local community pages, IDX pages on there with information about each one of these neighborhoods and parts of cities and, and suburbs. Well, is that what every agent needs to do? Well, maybe, but I've seen people literally be about a successful from a lead perspective and growing their agent basis that have 50 little neighborhood pages. Cause they know it very well. And so you know, and they built it, you know, there's a gentleman in Florida, it's like, he built out kind of like these 50 kind of condo beach area pages so that when he meets people in Florida that are on vacation, he goes, ah, Brett, you're down here. Can I just send you this link that I'll tell you were open houses, right. If you guys wanna look at anything like that's part of his business, his relationship sphere of influence that he did. Somebody taught him how to build the pages. There was a, you know, education, bit of it, but then he went, how is this gonna work for me and my son, they work as a team and then they made it, their made it their own. 

Brett: 

Yeah. When, and from my perspective, it's interesting cuz we've had, you know, a wide variety of guests, they all, you know, have their own expertise. And one of them, his approach to, you know, building his real estate business, he knocked on over 125,000 doors over the course of his career. Wow. And that's just how he did it. He wasn't, you know, he was honest. He was like, I'm not tech savvy. I don't know how to market. I don't know anything like that. He's like, but I'm good with people. And that is like what I committed to. And then obviously we have on the other spectrum guests like you who are extremely tech savvy and can help real estate agents build out all these tools. But at the end of the day, obviously technology isn't going anywhere. Technology can help more people and not everyone's gonna, you know, spend the time to go knock on 125,000 doors if that's right. Crazy. 

Kurt: 

Well, I love that example cuz it, whether, whether you kind of go just a pure digital marketing aspect or in person, one of the things where not just talking for the company I'm at, but MLSs and associations bring me to talk and right at the high, highest level, I abstract things is, look, if you wanna be successful as an agent, there's only two things that matter to you. There's two assets that are valuable to you as an agent. Cuz I mean it, it's not that it's, it it's overly complicated or overly simple to do a real estate transaction. But once you learn that what's next well, it's, it's your personal brand and it's your database of clients. However you fill those two and keeping in mind that says, Hey, according to NAR, the average agent changes brokerages every five years and it was six years before then. 

Kurt: 

So for like the last nine years, basically every five to six years, the average agent is changing X that's still staying in agent as well. Okay. So if you're with Keller today, you're likely to do each P tomorrow or Remax the next day. Well, if you're relying on the techniques, just from that brokerage or a, you know, kurt.kw.com and now I change to E P or something. Well, my personal brand is what connects me with those agents, whether it's 125,000 doors I've knocked with, or 125,000 people I've connected with on TikTok or YouTube. Right. And the fact is I need to drive them to my personal brand and make sure I keep a contact database so that when I, if I choose to change brokerages that I'm controlling my destiny, cuz it's my, it's technically my business as an agent, not the brokerage I'm with. 

Brett: 

Right. Right. Well, and I'm glad that you brought that up. As far as, you know, people changing brokerages every five years, like you had said from your point of view, and now that you're involved in the industry, have you noticed that more and more brokerages are kind of trying to up their, you know, arsenal of tech tools and you know, what they can offer their real estate agents to try and keep them in house and not, you know, jump around and move to other brokerages 

Kurt: 

A lot are it's usually actually on the smaller side. I mean, they're, you see, you know, billions of dollars being spent by some of the large brokerages, right. They're doing that. And the solutions are good, but I think where I feel like there's been a real change has been some of these more boutique places like a Stewart St. James. And I think they're in Massachusetts that says, Hey, they wanted to assemble a technology stack. That, that wasn't just a single solution that said we're gonna take the best of breed from different pieces and put that together. So that agents one, they get a base offer. They can choose to upgrade to something that they'll actually use. Right. I mean there's, you know, almost every brokerage will give you a CRM, but will you use it? They'll give you a website, but will your clients use it?  And so things change on the, on the, on the big national broker side. Yes. but much more. I feel like there's, we've gotten a lot more competitive at the smaller boutique size much more. 

Brett: 

Okay. Yeah. And that makes sense, you know, those smaller boutique brokerages are often the ones that are kind of almost the laggers as far as adapting to, you know, technology and you know, the new trends that are going on within the industry. So to hear that from your perspective, that's great as far as for them to be able to stay competitive. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And even at the bigger brokerages, it's like, when you look at who's actually growing, are they using the tools from that brokerage or are they using tools that they own because Hey, like there's nothing wrong with using a database from, from your brokerage, if you can still export your contacts. Right. But in the end it's like, to me, it's like to protect you as an agent, your, your primary brand and your database are your two most valuable assets when you stay in this business. And so you need to have access to those at all times. And so there are things where it's like, is it, is, is it the, the CRM that your agency brokerage has given you? Or should you use a follow up boss yourself or even just dump things through zap here to a Google sheet just in case. Yeah. the answer is, it depends on you. Like there's no best CRM to me, the best CRM for an agent is the one they actually will use. I've seen, I've seen agents that do 80, 80 to a hundred transactions a year that their only CRM is a Google sheet. like, but they use it. Yeah. And it's like, okay, like success doesn't come from the tool as much as it are you using it as to connect with people? 

Brett: 

Right. Yeah. And of course, you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. So for them they're like, well, I'm doing just fine. Why would I change anything now? 

Kurt: 

Right. 

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Brett: 

Yeah. So earlier you had touched on you know, people actually using the tech tool to help them. And a lot of the time people, you know, they invest in these tech tools, but they don't always actually use it from a broader scope. Technology is obviously continue to play a large role, but not all tech is obviously adopted by society. Yeah. What are some key factors, do you think that make new technology easily adaptable and ultimately successful? 

Kurt: 

Well, on the agent side for me, I, I think a big portion is is it, does it work on mobile? Like, you know, does a full CRM need to work on your phone? No. But do you need to be able to get a notification when new lead signs up so that you can call them or email them right away or text them? Yes. so the, the, but it, so it has to have a, a usable mobile side, but on the consumer side, the bar has changed. I mean, there are websites that have SubD domains, like search.curer.com. Yeah. You have a drop off of 90 to 95% of consumers just from changing to a SubD domain like that. Or if you take somebody to, to an older website, well, so it's like, if it doesn't have a modern search fail, I mean, a lot of agents are scared of Zillow, but in the end, consumers are used to a search experience like Zillow, right. 

Kurt: 

Even if you look at all the marketing stats and go Zillow versus Trulia, same company, same parent company. But, but Zillow is so, so far ahead from a retention perspective over, over their, their, their sister company. So does your website, is your website something that your clients will actually use? Cuz if not like, like for me, like it's not just tools that the agent will use. If your clients won't use your website, then the one thing I can guarantee you about your business is a hundred percent of the transactions. You will have a competitive agent calling your client. And if you're a new agent that should scare you to death, or if you're somebody who's trying to scale your business, because I mean, at least if you're doing a hundred transactions a year, then great, you, you have a bandwidth to kind of fall back on. 

Kurt: 

Right. But if you're a newer agent, if you're somebody that's five years in or you've been, part-time, you're changing over well, you're still working your sphere of influence. And so if your aunt ends up going, having to decide between Wells, if I use Brett, he's new into real estate, he's been successful somewhere else. Or this agent just called me cuz Zillow gave them my info advertising or selling, well, this agent closed a hundred transactions a year. Maybe I should not use Brett. That's not ever a conversation you wanna be in as a new agent. And so for me, I think both like home search is, I mean, you're selling home. That's, that's where it comes out to. That's the first thing. But even on email is like, does this, if you were a consumer who got this, would you care about the information? Does this work on their phone? Those are things from a retention perspective. I think too many agents think about this. Either checks the box or it looks good to me as an agent rather than sending it to 10 clients and go, would you use this? Or would you go use something else? Yeah. Like that's a very humbling thing to do, but that'll change your business. 

Brett: 

Yeah. Well, in real, in real estate, especially such a people business, it's all about the people at the end of the day, you know, you could have this wide range of different tools that are gonna help you, but if you're not in that face to face atmosphere, you know, actually connecting with them and building those relationships, you're probably not gonna have a very sustainable career 

Kurt: 

Agree and well, and to your point about relationships, one of the the next pieces of advice I tend to give a lot of agents is the best you know, assuming they have a website that their clients would actually use. Then in a search that they, they expect is like, you, you should go and talk to your clients to some degree, almost like a fi a fee based financial planner. Sure. Because like, Hey, like the big portal Zillow, if you look at their, their public, you can look at, they've earned $2 billion a year and they're advertising business. And there's different ways they structure that. Sometimes it's a percentage of the deal versus a, a per lead thing. But in the end they're selling your client's information. And so when you point out to your clients, you're like, look, I have a financial interest. 

Kurt: 

I have a vested interest in keeping your information, Brett confidential, as opposed to a company that's earning $2 billion a year saying, well, Brett's looking for a 400 to $450,000 home and this part of the market and here's their info. And they, you know, they provided to a different, a variety of service providers, not just agents. Right? You tell an agent consumer that. And like, my wife has said, I can't bring that up at like dinner parties or at church or anything. cause she's like, cause people go, honey, honey, you didn't use our real email address. Did you? And I'm like, but, but that's the point of a relationship? Like the agent, some cases they are fiduciaries in some states, but like, that's the relationship? my job. I only get paid if I help you out. Right. That's a very different kind of relationship. I mean, heck my agent sold me this house four years ago, five years ago, this point I can, I've sent him some just random text messages about like, Hey, I'm thinking about investing in, you know, insert remodel, you know, remodeling project and he follows up, does he get paid for that? No, but it's the relationship he's bringing back to me. And it's like, I literally hired somebody that just moved here from Hawaii. Guess who I referred the same agent. That's been not just great transaction, but has helped me out since 

Brett: 

Then. Right. Right. And that's such a crucial point is, you know, once that sale is done, your job's not really over. You have to be able to connect with them over time, especially if they're coming to you for advice like that, because that means that they trust you. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. 

Brett: 

So I'm, I'm glad that you had brought that up as far as, you know, creating and maintaining relationships. So creating relationships is obviously important to you. It has been throughout your career. But was this a philosophy that, you know, that you always practice or was that, that was this something that you kind of learned over time? 

Kurt: 

Much more learned over time. Okay. And less from the business perspective, although I've adopted what, what now I would pro I would title as high achieving servant leadership. Okay. And trying to both lead clients that way, lead people on my team that way. But I mean, as early as that first landscaping business up through a company, we took from 85 million a year in revenue to 1.4, 4 billion. I led by authority then. Yeah. Thinking that I was the smartest person in the world and I kind of led of approach. It said if, if one person on the team cried, it was them. If, if the whole team cried, it was me. And it mean I just dialed it up till 11 when I need to dial them back to like a nine or a 10. Cause I maxed out a little bit too much. 

Kurt: 

And I got to see at that time thanks to a mentor, the wake of destruction, what I thought at first I had just attributed to just in the people's personal lives and much more what I realized. He, he kind of brought me around to so you realized what has happened to your business when these people's personal lives go chaotic. And so I was like, whoa, so that's not what the legacy I would want from a personal perspective, from a faith perspective and even from a businesses. And so since then I'd say my companies have ended up being much more successful overall. Cuz I'm not just looking for people that are coming to work for a, a given six weeks or six months or even a couple years, I'm looking at people to go to war with us. Right. Because I mean, whether you're an agent trying to go from 50 transactions to 150 a year, or you're trying to grow software company, like I've helped do, like, you need people on your team that like, when things get bad or things, there's put trigger periods to lead to an inflection of growth, you need people that you don't even have to ask them to work more hours cuz they're like, let's get this done. 

Brett: 

Right. They were, they're willing to go to bat for you. Yep. Yeah. So changing gears a little bit, but focusing on, you know, scalability to you when a company approaches you to, you know, asking for your consultation as far as, you know, how do we scale or let's say that it's an individual, like a small boutique brokerage that's asking, you know, how do we scale this when you're looking at like, what are some of the factors that you're looking at within the company? Is it more about the numbers? Is it more about you know, external factors? What in your mind is important for individuals or companies that are trying to scale? 

Kurt: 

If it's, if it's a company they usually need to have, I mean, it's, it doesn't really have to be a specific revenue figure, but it's usually five to 10 million a year in revenue. Okay's a place where I feel like they found product market fit enough. They're not trying to figure out what their service or product is. Right. cuz then we can start to look for things from an from an agent perspective or you know, solo entrepreneur it's, it's usually something much more similar to that. Do they have, have they found enough of a repeat success that you know, in many cases they're humble enough to realize, I don't know what it would take to 10 X, my business I'm trying and I'm lucky if I can grow it a couple percent a year. That humbleness of heart's a really big deal for me. 

Kurt: 

Okay. And especially like on the, on the real estate side, it, this has to be a full-time gig for them. There's not, I mean, I have a lot of free information out there that will help, you know, part-time agents, but it needs to be something where this is, this is your bread and butter. This is what you do for your household. And in that case, I often won't work with agents. One on one I'll work with teams, but I, I find there's a huge benefit from discipling like eight to 12 people at a time. Usually not in the same market, but because the, usually if I was talking to you about a pain point, we found in your personal business, Brett, as an agent it applies to probably half the other people. And it's not nearly as emotional to them when I'm talking about your pro the problem that you have. Right. It helps them much more and vice versa when I'm find finding something in, in their business as 

Brett: 

Well. Okay. So kind of piggybank piggybacking, sorry, off of that what would be some examples, you know, for the newer agents that are listening to the podcast, what would be some examples of, you know, pain points that you would look for? 

Kurt: 

For me there's you know, do you have a process? Do you have a process that you're confident of, that if you put people into, if I put 50 contacts in the top that I'm gonna get X number of closed deals out. Okay. And so like, if you that's a big pain point, cuz there you'll identify other things in there and that could be I mean, and it, it will look somewhat different, but largely technology wise shouldn't with the CRM is whether I'm door knocking or whether I'm doing Facebook or YouTube ads or whether or not I'm looking for, for organic traffic. I wanna know that. Right. And so first of all, I wanna know, do they have that? And if they don't, that's a huge pain point, but from there I wanna know what their, what they think their biggest pain point is within there, from what I've seen, the biggest loss of revenue opportunity, almost always is clients are going to Zillow for the home search versus something that you control and protect their info in. 

Kurt: 

Okay. Just because it's a, it's a, it's a it's a hole that just sucks out side wise from the funnel you can dump in a thousand leads up top, but if 90 to 95% are going out the side, you never have the chance to drop them down to close deal. But often it's, it's just pure metrics like that. Okay. And all the pieces between that. And then from there we get into discussions, like what does that actually look like for you? And if you're a new agent, you may not even know that. So then in that case, I wanna go, like, how would you, how would you generate traffic? Like you need to start, you need a hundred new relationships of some way, a hundred new names of people talk to this month. How are you going to do that? 

Kurt: 

And do they have a plan? A lot of times new agents don't they may or may not send out an email even to people. That's a big deal. We had a program at our company in Indiana who realized he really liked working with people. And so now he's a, a couple years later, he is a very successful agent in Indianapolis. But the first year, like I'm talking to him and I'm like, he, he hadn't even sent out like an email to like his like 200 closest contacts to let him know, Hey, this is what I'm now doing. Why would like, who's gonna come to you then? Right. and so I think that, that from a pain point from a new agent, it is just literally going, Hey, I need buckets of new potential clients. How do I let them know I'm an agent and why they should work with me. And by all means, so what if you, haven't done a bunch of real estate transactions, I almost guarantee you think you're gonna be successful because you've been successful in something else. So you, we can help them draw that story. 

Brett: 

Sure, sure. Yeah. And a lot of that does come as far as, especially for new agents that can't add to their credibility by saying, oh, I've done X transactions. That personal brand and their personal story is what's gonna help people connect with them and ultimately trust them to, you know, facilitate this transaction. That for many people is a major life event. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And it's the transaction. And especially, you know, most people have a property they're selling. So I mentioned, you know, this friend and former coworker, he was a software engineer. He's good because he has built in a decade plus of experience of following standard operating procedures in an engineering world, very process oriented. So who's gonna be able to market that property like crazy somebody who knows, Hey, I have a new listing and here's the 27 things that I need to do to get the word out about this new listing. That's well beyond entering it in an MLS. Right. I mean, yes, that's important, but anybody can do that. Sure. You can pay somebody, you know, some places, you know, $200 just to get your property listed and for sale by owner now you need somebody that sells it. That's the story I would tell much different than the story for a, a school teacher who moved over to real estate. 

Brett: 

Right, right, right. So I'm glad that you, you, throughout the podcast so far, you've mentioned sphere of influence often, and that is something that our team talks about a lot, as far as helping agents become more successful and grow ultimately is to, you know, grow that sphere of influence for you. Whether in real estate or in your previous experience in your career, what was, you know, what was, so what was important to you when it, when it came to, you know, ultimately networking and growing your sphere of influence, was it more on, you had mentioned emailing and you know, those other channels, but what to you ultimately found helped you find success? 

Kurt: 

That's good. That's a great question. I'd say there's two things one's tactical and one's much more ethereal the ethereal is being a man, being a man of integrity in my word. So yeah. Telling somebody you know, and, and being that, whether you're a man or woman of, I tell you, I'm gonna follow up, I tell you, I'm gonna introduce you to somebody and actually doing that. Right. And so you know, I had to figure out what did that look like for me, cuz I, I want, may want to introduce you to the three people we talked about. I had to figure out systems that worked for me to make sure I would follow up to actually do what I wanted to do. Right. And cuz without that, you're not gonna view me as somebody of integrity. So why should you work with me? 

Kurt: 

And you're certainly not gonna trust my, trust me from an influence perspective. The second thing was realizing that I needed to have whether I'm an agent or when I do myself I needed to control like I needed to have a hub, a digital hub, everything goes to, and so Facebook could change our algorithms tomorrow, Instagram, TikTok and anything. And so great. I mean we've heard this for the last five years, not great. I built this huge audience on Facebook and not have to pay ads to go and talk to them. Well you have to pay for an email program for that. So like even now, like people can find me on Twitter or Instagram or TikTok, but if you wanna make sure you always know what's going on, you come to my personal website cuz I control that. And then I may ask for a phone number, an email address that allows me to come back and connect with you. 

Kurt: 

And so I, whether or not somebody wants to be, you know, build their influence on any insert the name of the social media channel or email or, you know, there's pure SMS technologies as well. I think having a website that you own as your personal brand, whether that's cur uler.com or you know, insert a brand name, if that fits better with your business. Okay. That that's what you need to have because it's the, that allows you to be successful wherever your influence is. Maybe, maybe you do almost nothing online on social, but you are very active in your church or synagogue or local food bank. And so when somebody finds out you're an agent, well, how do they, how do they connect to you? Right. We'll do that then. 

Brett: 

Okay. Okay. So when you're ultimately facilitate or you're having those conversations, you know, like you had just said with someone in your community and you want to point them to your website would you recommend, you know, having a business card? Is it as simple as that as far as pointing them to your website? Or is it just kind of repeating? I have a website, I have a website, I have a website. Here's where you go. 

Kurt: 

It depends on the question. And so for me, if I, as an agent and where I see the most success is people build out local area, community, page, area based community pages, ABC pages. Yeah. And so I live in Roswell, Georgia. And so that could be by property type town, owns condos, single family homes in Roswell, Georgia, or that could be based on areas of the city I live in the neighborhood called Bristol Oaks. And so if you were looking here and you know, we meet up, we meet at at a community event and you say, you're looking for things and we're like, oh great. You should look at Bristol Oak. Well, my ideal thing then is I'll actually take out my phone and go, I have a, I have an area page that's written about that. And for an agent perspective, like it literally, all it has on there is of course IDX list things. 

Kurt: 

But it's gonna have two to 500 words of what you probably would've told me. Told me if you were the agent in person about that area and just says, Hey, let me just for you, this it'll tell you a lot about Bristol Oaks or the beach, you know, for open houses. If you're, you're not in Florida somewhere. And let me just email that to you. Well now I've sent you something invaluable and so hope. Hopefully you're gonna sign up just my website from that. That's a much better follow up than just telling you my website. The other thing then that I've seen successful agents do is they then say, sit down every Sunday and they'll look back after those interactions in person and they'll go, all right, who signed up? And they'll match it up with, with who signed up on the website and they go, Brett, didn't sign up. And so then they'll manually reach back out to you that way, because I captured your email. But without asking for the business card, leaves it in your hands. When I ask you for your email address, well now it feels silly when I say, can I send you this thing? That's exactly what you're looking for. Or, oh, you know, I, you have kids in this age, I have a blog post. That'd be interesting. Can I just send that to you? Now I control everything here and I'm not a salesperson I'm helping. 

Brett: 

Yeah. It's a little less intrusive. And it's also, you're almost taking that, you know, the classic elevator pitch and putting it through that link and letting them take the time to do that instead of, you know, taking that time from them. Yeah. Wherever you are. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And if you don't have that content, you're a newer agent, then that's a great place for you to take a note and go, gosh, I talked to Brett about this and what would've been helpful if I had, if I had a community page based on this, it's easy to build with an IDX and some local content on there. Or gosh, he was looking for summer events in Roswell, Georgia. I could knock that out. And then you just take that note and then you have this system that says, now I need to set aside a few minutes to actually do that. And it can be as simple as writing it out yourself or, I mean, I'm big on processes. And so it's like ed from an education perspective, I love self, you know, self-guided classes and education online. I also realize for agents there's a lot easier for a lot of them to talk than it is to write, right? So you can find virtual assistance where I'll pull out the voice notes on my iPhone. And I would talk about Bristol Oaks, the neighborhood for five minutes about why you should live here. And I can send that voice note to my virtual admin and for 10 bucks, they'll write it out into a little blog post for me that than that solved what I needed without me getting in the way of 

Brett: 

It. Right, right. When its certainly faster in, you know, for some agents, they might not be confident in writing those kind of blog posts. So if you send it off to someone who's a professional, it, that, that gives you that confidence, that that page is gonna be, you know, credible. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. I also, for me it's also a great way. Like if somebody has kids and their teens or even college, like it's a great way to start to involve them into that as well starts to show them what does business look like? What pays for the lights and things here you know, and, and, and does help them from an education perspective as well. 

Brett: 

Sure. Little more real life experience. Very much. Yeah. So what ultimately, you know, we've talked about, you know, tech tools talked about how they can help in real estate. You've given your, you know, your tips and tricks on that, but we haven't yet discussed, you know, why you ultimately wanted to get into real estate and what that looked like. So three and a half years ago, or even, I guess before that, were you thinking, gosh, this is, this is an industry I wanna get into, this is a space that I'd like to enter or was it a little more impulsive? 

Kurt: 

It was much more imp impulsive and serendipitous. So I had a fraternity brother that reached out, he had sold another prop tech company and I had taken 18 months off and so he literally reached out and said, Hey, I've sold this other company. It sounds like, you know, your wife was okay with you taking 18 months off. That seems like a hard discussion can we grab coffee to talk about that? I might wanna have that same conversation. And then he told me about another company he had started like 15 plus years beforehand that when I looked at it, they were much smaller than the typical company I would work with. But their technology said it was it's easily two orders of magnitude better than anything else that's out there. Sure. And so I met with them and the the CEO was just a personality that I, I love working with. 

Kurt: 

And and so we hit it off right away. And so I kind of got, I kind of jumped into it before I, before I thought about it. That was actually probably about a, maybe even only six days fully in that conversation. Okay. But I, I mean, I, I knew once I got here, it was like, this is great. Especially as like I literally sent out an email, it's like 400 people saying I joined this company and I was in real estate now I invested in some real estate tech companies, but I wasn't in the industry. Okay. And I literally started getting introductions to associations agent associations to come and talk to them saying, Hey, we don't want, want you to pitch a company, but you've been so successful marketing in other marketing industries. Can you come kind of talk to our agents about what does modern marketing look like? 

Kurt: 

And when I talked to those, I mean thousands and thousands of agents just in the first six months, not really to the company, I heard what they were talking about and where they struggle. I'm like, wow, I can really help you with some of those things that, that are really relatively easy. But I think there's either just so much bad tooling out there for people or agents don't realize it doesn't have to be that complicated. As I mentioned earlier, it's like, it's your brand and your contact database. Everything else just needs to feed those two things. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. 

Brett: 

Sure. Can you expand just a little bit on the, you know, the actual real estate company that you're working with now? 

Kurt: 

Yeah. So I work with a company named showcase IDX, and so we provide that Zillow like home search. Okay. Better than that, we're the only home search that consumers choose over any of the big portals. But it powers it literally, we don't build websites for agents. We're just a home search that is powers their websites. And so they'll use WordPress in us. And I mentioned some of the success stories that we have, we support thousands of agents across more than a hundred plus brokers and teams across the us and Canada. And so some cases, agents build the websites themselves using us some cases. I mentioned like a 14 year old daughter or we have a lot of marketing partners that will help build them with their website or other parts of their marketing. Cuz a lot of agents, it's not just the website they're needing, they may, they're often saying that's maybe something I'm revamping today, but I also need some social media help or I also need some help with content or somebody need to take my voice notes and write that out. 

Brett: 

Sure. And I'm assuming you, you said earlier that you're in Georgia, but I'm assuming this company helps agents nationwide, right. 

Kurt: 

Agents nationwide across the us and Canada. So we don't have quite every MLS covered, but we have all the big ones and we keep expanding and our team's, I mean just shows how fast our team's growing. I think our team has grown, gosh, I don't even know 15 X in the last year, so. 

Brett: 

Oh yeah. Well, I mean, as far as scaling as to that like to that number from your pursuit, when you first got in there, was there, was that like your initial idea right away or did you know, your friend that you, that had asked you to come on say, Hey, we need help scaling this at some point. Or was this something you had come forward to them with? 

Kurt: 

He thought he, he literally introduced me just so I can have a casual conversation, maybe offer a couple of tips. Yeah. And I'm not sure if he intentionally kind of downplayed how much better they were technology wise. Sure. But when I met, when I met the CEO of Scott Lockhart and he told me about what their pain points were, and I'm like the pain points you have are not product, which most companies tend to have or finding, you know, finding something that's valuable to agents. And I'm like, you literally just have a problem of talking more agents 

Brett: 

And I'm like, 

Kurt: 

We can deal with that. I mean, just, just for my personal speaking gigs, I, I built up a agent database of 90,000 agents on my personal database within the first year. Geez. And so I'm like, we, we can help you with that part of it. And then from there it was also it's, it's continuing to be things that we always look for, you know, pain points ourselves. And so I put a woman in charge of customer success that had been just doing support tickets before. But she has a heart for this and she's figuring out like, well, we'll make you the leader that, that I think you're capable of being, if you wanna do that. And not everybody always wants those roles, so 

Brett: 

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. You want to, you know, everyone says they want more on their plate, but not everyone. When they have that plateful is, you know, hungry enough to take that on. So yeah. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And not intended to become, come in a real estate. But I, because I've done so many other things I, I help technology companies, growth companies at scale, but I've also done things like, you know, I've, I've literally you know, led events with the president of the United States around the native America businesses and companies here, as weird as that sounds to say. But at that point it's like to me agents are the purest form of kind of entrepreneurship because they are individual, you know, businesses, themselves, owner operators. And so, you know, the man or woman who's come into real estate, whether they're six months into this is a part-time agent or they're 20 years into it, like very few agents do I find, or they're just good with their business. They're usually trying to figure something out. And technology comes in and changes that a big portal comes in and changes how leads are done. You know, companies come in and say, well, we'll give somebody back a rebate on, you know, on the agent commission. They have to know how to deal with that. And I'm like, well, that's, it's happening so much faster in real estate than we see in other businesses. I just, I, I love helping agents. 

Brett: 

That's awesome. That's great. So going beyond your career, going beyond, you know, real estate and technology, you are clearly a go-getter when it comes to life. You've been a three sport college athlete, I think a stuntman certified alligator handler, which is crazy member of both the high angle and scuba rescue teams with rescue squad. What drove you to know pursue these high adrenaline? I guess not hobbies, but they're more of lines of work. And like, where did you find to, where did you find the time to accomplish all of this? This is crazy. 

Kurt: 

The time actually happened on a lot. I don't know if it's from from DNA or from from, from being nurtured. My dad only, it was one of those rare people who literally slept like an hour and a half a day until his second bout with cancer, at which point he started sleeping much more like a normal person. So I, I remember being woken up at like six and seven years old at 3:00 AM where dad's like, Hey, I got a field trip. Let's go. Yeah. And so I, I haven't slept a lot in my life. And so even without caffeine, like this is me on one cup of coffee. I mean, this is water in my cup, I'm drinking right now. So there, so you have a few more hours when you only sit a few hours a night. Yeah. But that makes sense. Other than that being, you know, being bored and curious. So earlier in my life I did get in a lot of trouble. And so with, with my my boredom and so instead I've tried putting that much more to productive use. 

Brett: 

OK. That's pretty smart. And I think like there's a lot of, you know, people in their youth that have that same problems, they have so much energy, it ultimately leads to boredom, which ultimately leads to, you know, not doing always the right thing. But you obviously channel that energy into doing something that's really productive and ultimately shaped who you are today, which is great. But I don't know if everyone, like, some people certainly struggle with that. But one thing that I do think helps, you know, when you meet this sort of boredom and you have such a high energy personality is a daily routine. Can you walk us through what your daily routine looks like? Whether, you know, it's changed over time, I'm sure it's has, since you've gotten married and you've had children and whatnot what does that look like for you? 

Kurt: 

It starts early, so I'm up by no later than four 30 every morning. I'm at the gym by no later than five 30. I really wish they would have a four 30 or 5:00 AM workout. Right. so I'm a member of iron tribe fitness. And so you'll find me there doing CrossFit, like workout on a daily basis. And so I start with that. I come home. I, you know, I try to take my son in the morning to give my wife a little bit time. We have a almost three month old at the, in the house. And so, wow, okay. She's often had a little bit longer nights. And so I try to keep our two and a half year old during the day morning. But then I, you know, I know what my rhythm is. 

Kurt: 

I'm much more creative in the morning. And so I do a lot of writing. I do a lot more creative and leadership stuff with my teams. I tend to do that, that work in the morning because that works for me. And I keep more shallow work, responding to emails and meetings and things in the afternoons. And then I literally get into things a lot. I I self I kind of self coach a lot because I literally just stepped out of a one-on-one meeting with somebody on my team and I was having to guide her through like, some of these things keep getting pushed off. You just need to put time three hours in your calendar. And even if it gets moved, block it out and work through it, knowing you're not doing other things, it's priorities. Well, that applies to me very much, you know, going on right now. Doesn't always, but it's like, as I'm telling her, I'm like, yep, that's applying to where I'm at right now. I need to do the same thing. So I have a stack of note cards here, things I jotted on afterwards that are gonna go on my calendar for either me to do or my ops manager to help me with. 

Brett: 

Okay. Okay. And it certainly, you know, it seems like you are constantly pursuing knowledge. You are always wanting to learn more. You even said earlier that you don't even know what your real path is at now at your age. Are there any sort of books that you have read over, you know, the last couple years or anything that has really stuck out to you that's been pivotal in your career as far as your perspective on things? 

Kurt: 

Yeah. There's a book you'll have to get on Amazon. You might buy on Barnes and noble. It's not gonna be as wide as like a Gary V book or something, but called it's called profit first. So basically money, profit, profit first. I, I think every agent would, would very much benefit from it. It's meant for the entrepreneur. Who's starting a consulting business, something that's like, how do you, how do you get Dave Ramsey kind of wealth, you know, wealth where you don't have to worry about and everything's paid off. Sure. Well, you don't grow your business like everybody else. And so it's a mentality shift is, is the book. And so, Hey, should you invest in your business? Absolutely. Should you invest in your marketing if you're an agent? Absolutely. But the mentality of that book from a profit first perspective, I think it's, you know, somebody should get the audio book and listen to it twice. 

Kurt: 

Like you could listen to it once and normal speed and then listen to it the second time and like a two X or something, just to go through it faster, to reinforce a little bit of the things, but it'll change. People's mentality about you know, Hey, I'm I I'm going to do this cause otherwise what a lot of agents do is, Hey, I closed 10 more transactions this quarter. Well, they find a way to spend that money so that they're not any better off at the end of the quarter than they were before. 

Brett: 

Right. 

Kurt: 

Well that that's not gonna help you long term for your business. 

Brett: 

So I'm glad that you had just touched on that. What is, you know, one key factor you think that, and it doesn't have to be real estate related, it could just be career related. What is one thing that you think is important to having, you know, a sustainable career and actually, you know, getting success and accruing success year over year, over year, 

Kurt: 

A mindset of constant improvement. Okay. I mean, there are things by all means that I, I, I think it's important to have when you can, you know, have major increases in your knowledge or your efficiency, but like somebody can search for my name curricular mindset, and you'll find, you know, this keynote that I tend to give, I adapted for different industries, but looking at how you can improve things, short term things and longer term things and why each of those are important to become better. So, I mean, if I just do small 1% improvements week over week right now, and I make sure that we're fine and their habits of stick well, the end of this year would look entirely different, personalized faith wise money wise than it did at the beginning of this year. And so by all means, there are things that you can do to that may grow your business by 50% and think about those. But usually you're not gonna get that done in a day or an hour, but there are shorter term things that can be done. Some cases are habits and some cases are just small improvements that will have such an impact over time. And most people discount 'em because they feel small and that mindset shift is what gets you to efficiency over time. 

Brett: 

Yeah. It's that 1% better everyday mentality. Yeah. You know, if you apply that for a year, that's you have theoretically 365% better that's when you enter the new year. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. Well, and, and that, and a lot of times to do that, you do need a mentor behind you, whether it's work or faith or personal life. And so for me, like that's finding somebody that's at least two seasons ahead of where I'm at and has been successful in whatever I'm asking for mentorship in for at least that long, like, Hey, I'm 45, I'm 10 years into a marriage. Does it make sense for me to go find somebody that's just 15 or 20 years into their marriage? Like, no, like I had a mentor who was 35, 40 years into their marriage and had a lot of good and bad things in there. It's like, I kind of, I had a I had a mentor. He was doing some more life based than faith based stuff. He commented, Hey, you don't know if you're a good parent until your kids are 45 or 50. 

Kurt: 

And somebody was like, what? Cause they were asking like a college question, like I'm done. And he was like, my son's like 42 or 43. And I'm just now starting to think that we might have been an okay parent  and he is like, and I'm like, wow. Like if you went to ask somebody like that, their kids were just into college, you'd get a completely different answer. Sure. And so I it's the same thing for me, whether I'm, I'm wanting, you know, I'm changing my mind shift. I don't want somebody's success. That's a one time success person or they have a couple more years on me. Right. Like it's too easy for them to unintentionally give me bad advice. 

Brett: 

Right. Right. Well, I'm glad that you had brought that up. I think that that's one question that's asked often is, you know, how do I find a mentor or, you know, how do I know that I'm, you know, in a bad relationship with a mentor, something along those lines for you, how did you find, you know, your mentors or did, was it something that they kind of approached you? How did that ultimately, what was that process like? 

Kurt: 

I I've done both. I one approached me or we kind of stumbled in a relationship by the point. We'd been getting together for, I don't know, at least once a month for about nine months, at which point I asked him, Hey, Don, would you, would you consider being my mentor? And he was kind of flabbergasted, like, what did you think this had been. 

Kurt: 

Was very awkward for both of us at that point. Right. but I, I really believe that people that have approached me, like it should be an intentional decision. Sure. and, and you should go and you should find somebody that, you know, they said that that's two, two seasons ahead from a success perspective. And you should maybe not ask them, you should say, I'm looking for a mentor to help me in this. And, and, and I, you know, somebody who's good from a faith perspective may be different than family may be different than work. Right. And so sometimes I may be the same person, but you go and tell them, this is, this is who I'm looking for a mentorship or what I'm looking for, mentorship in. How do you, could you, would you meet with me for a few times, Brett and help me figure out what I should be looking for in a mentor. And a lot of times they may self-identify, they may have a friend and recommend you to somebody or you figure that out. Cause I mean, at the beginning of that, I think it is a kind of a dating thing of, Hey, they need to figure out, are, are you the right person to take guidance from me and you need to figure out, do I actually wanna take guidance from this person? 

Brett: 

Right. Right. So were these individuals that you had met, you know, through your career or, you know at your church or within your community, and then ultimately you're, you kind of thought I should ask them if, you know, if I could, you know, pick their brain and ultimately look for mentorship, is that how you 

Kurt: 

Identify that? Well, in all of those, I found mentors at times. So I've had what, I'd say four, four people. I would, I would really categorize as, as strong mentors throughout my life. One of those later one was from a work perspective. He hired me and I had been much more monetarily successful before, but I'd seen a wake of personal relationships in people. And here was a gentleman who had, he was a Threepeat entrepreneur. His family knew him. His kids knew him. His wife liked him still, which isn't always the case. And so part of actually me choosing to go work for him was, Hey, I'm, I'm only looking for like, I don't need to work. I'm only looking for a job where I can get an insight in your personal life. 

Kurt: 

And so he took me into meetings with him, with private equity groups and venture capital groups that literally, I, I wasn't qualified at that point in my career necessarily be in those meetings. And so sometimes he told me to be quiet. But I was, I was there literally, it kind of add his shadow. Sure. And I got to see those conversations. I got to hear him call his wife and say, Hey, I'm working late. And what does that look like? And then ask him, follow up things. Another one was a faith perspective and I didn't really intend to it. This was somebody who had built a large actually mentoring organization, trying to teach people discipleship and mentoring and had come to me and asked me for guidance about some bottlenecks that they have. And literally twice he had asked me to come join his personal group. And I said, no. And then I started, I met my now wife and I'm like, maybe I need a little bit more of that humbleness, cuz if Reggie's been successful in business, right. And this is his retirement is figuring things out. And he's coming to me to ask for things that seems like he's humble enough to realize where he has gaps at. At that point, I no longer gave guidance on grow on, on growing their organization. And I became a mentee of his until he passed. 

Brett: 

Okay. Well, I'm sorry to hear about his passing, but it sounds like you guys had a great relationship. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. But I think, I think you should. I think people should definitely have that conversation because you wanna relationships mean something when you define it. Right. I mean, whether somebody's personal and it's like, Hey, do you want to go hang out? No, you should ask somebody. Do you want to go out on a date? You know, you, don't just, you don't just tell somebody, Hey, do you wanna come hang out at my company and do some work for me an hour here too? You go, Hey Brett, I'd like to offer you a full-time position doing this. Like when you define relationships that makes them special. 

Brett: 

Sure, sure. Then it helps both parties understand exactly what, you know, what you're here to do. You're not wasting time, you know, kind of futzing around, catching up. You're there for a purpose. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. And especially on the mentee side mentor side, you a mentee needs to know what is expected of them. And so that may look very different if I was mentoring someone than if you were mentoring them and not that either one's right or wrong, you just need to know what the expectations are because unmet expectations are always missed. Right. And I need to know what I'm delivering to and I need to know what, what I'm kind of holding you accountable to. 

Brett: 

Okay, cool. So this is in one question we ask every guest but if there was one thing that you could go back and change either in your life or your career, what would it be and why? 

Brett: 

It's a toughie. I know  

Kurt: 

Yeah. I, I, I, I would, I would've realized early on that I, that leading by authority and being an a-hole was not the right way to grow companies. I made people millionaires. Some of them still won't talk to me today. And others, it took me a long time of apologizing and sending them notes to their house to be like, Hey, I'm a different person now. Can we talk? Not just because maybe I think I would've found work and even personal fulfillment faster. Sure. But the wake of kind of devastation for working for me in the first 10 years of that I was in business, man. That's, that's a, that's a burden I gotta bear. 

Brett: 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting one. We've not you know, had that answer yet, but I'm glad that you had said that. I think that's a great answer and you know, ultimately it does come down to people and your relationship with them and, you know, you respect someone you'll get respect back. Yeah. Okay. So final question. You've got a lot going on in your life, obviously you've got your new venture with your real estate company. Is there anything that you want to point our listeners to, you know, if people want to connect with you, what's the best way to do so. You know, is there anything that you want to kind of plug and let people know what you're up to? 

Kurt: 

Well, I, I mean they wanna connect with me Kurt, er.com L I R is the best place to find me. Okay. But I have probably in the next month, maybe two months, I'm betting 30 to 40 articles coming out on high achieving servant leadership. Okay. And what does that look like in different spheres for person, individual, for companies. And so that's kind of my plug for right now is okay. I'm still figuring this out myself and so some of it is putting out there a lot of this combination of high achieving attitudes with true servant leadership to get feedback from people that are out there as well and see how I can improve myself. 

Brett: 

Awesome. That's perfect. Okay. Well, that's a great note to end it on Kurt. Thank you so much for taking the time again, to, you know, talk with me on the podcast. I think our listeners are really gonna enjoy this episode. I've learned a lot. I hope they learn a lot. But yeah. Thank you very much. 

Kurt: 

Yeah. Thanks for having me. 

Brett: That’s it for this episode, thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast, you can subscribe to us and leave a review on your podcast player of choice. Have ideas of topics you’d like covered? Let us know in the comments below! We always appreciate your feedback. Shop Talk is a production of The CE Shop.